Thank you! Thus, many would say I fight against the church. Ellipsis mine). Mormons believe that a majority of people on this Earth will go to one of these three heavens. 16:18). When I was Mormon, I was taught that in order to be sent to Outer Darkness (I'm a woman, that will be relevant in a second) you had to have an UNMISTAKABLE KnOwLeDgE of Christ, and then turn your back on God and deny him. to become a son of perdition? Each differing in Glory but all great places to go. The New Testament testifies that there is an actual place identified as hell into which people can be cast, as in the case of the wicked, and from which they can lift up their eyes, as in the case of the rich man, and from which they can be delivered, as in the case of King David. Many of the apostates of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Hence the saying: They will go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. Whether Christians have believed hell to be literal or figurative, the New Testament metaphor of an unquenchable lake of fire has conjured up for believers in the Bible harsh images of souls consigned to never-ending punishment as recompense for their evil deeds done while on earth. First of all, to become a son of perdition, you need to have been baptized into the church, then turned from the religion in order to fight against it, all the while knowing it is true. There are three references to outer darkness in the New Testament, all contained in the Gospel of Matthew. Discourse delivered October 8, 1861, pp. Historic Christianity. 4:32; 3 Ne. Yea, they are grasped with death, and hell; and death, and hell, and the devil, and all that have been seized therewith must stand before the throne of God, and be judged according to their works, from whence they must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment (2 Ne. In the Bible, the phrases lake of fire and lake of fire and brimstone, describing the fate of the wicked, are unique to the book of Revelation. In Christianity, the "exterior darkness" or outer darkness is a place referred to three times in the Gospel of Matthew (8:12, 22:13, and 25:30) into which a person may be "cast out", and where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth". This page was last edited on 17 September 2010, at 20:26. Lets go to modern revelation: that there would be no daughters of perdition. Joseph F. Smith Stan Larsen, ed., A Ministry of Meetings: The Diaries of Rudger Clawson, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Smith Associates and Signature Books, 1993) p. 560, Somebody called me up on the telephone and asked if there were daughters of perdition. Then, I say unto you, they shall be as though there had been no redemption made; for they cannot be redeemed according to Gods justice; and they cannot die, seeing there is no more corruption (Alma 12:13,1618). . (2) We believe in allowing our candles to burn for a maximum of four hours at a time. . This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Circumcision. They will live in eternal darkness, torment, and misery with Satan and his angels forever. For most, outer darkness, the lake of fire, and the second death have an end, but for the sons of perdition these states continue eternally. In Jesus parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus contrasted the afterlife state of the lowly Lazarus with that of the self-absorbed rich man. Big Love's episode "Outer Darkness" Summary: It is not our intention to discuss details of the portrayal of the temple ceremony here. Also, Mormons believe in three Heavens. Death brought a reversal of their conditions wherein the rich man in hell became a beggar, longing for a drop of water from the finger of Lazarus, who was now in heaven, or Abrahams bosom. In the parable Abraham explained the impossibility of receiving his request, because between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence (Luke 16:1926). (To see the differences between the three kingdoms of glory, click here.) However, Lucifer did not know all the purposes of the Father as we learn from the Pearl of Great Price, Moses 4:6. The followers of Satan who will suffer with him in eternity. But suppose, deep down, I do believe the church is true. Outer Darkness. 13:40), cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matt. The terms spiritual death or second death, lake of fire and brimstone, and outer darkness are all synonymous with hell, and all are descriptive of both the temporary and the permanent hell. 2:8-10) Jesus' atonement provided immortality for all people. That it is the most severe punishment that can be meted out to man is apparent. In addition, Alma defined the second death as dying as to things pertaining unto righteousness. These individuals are chained down to an everlasting destruction and are subject to the will of Satan. 14:1519). ABCs of Science and Mormonism now available in Print from Amazon! This extreme punishment will not be given to any but the sons of perdition ( Doctrines of Salvation 2:220 ). 20:1314). Please note that FAIRMormon states it is not doctrine on the website. Banishment from the presence of God. Clearly, when it comes to perdition and outer darkness, I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me, and anyone who speaks on the matter has a dizzying intellect. And remember you can be excommunicated for asking church leaders to give solid answers so trust the apologists who say to only trust the prophets on matters like this. Mormons believe that only a Son of Perdition will go to Outer Darkness, their version of most Christian religions understanding of Hell. Joseph Fielding Smith who said that this class is composed of all who have known the power of God in this mortal life and then, having full knowledge of the power and purposes of God,rebel against him, putting Jesus Christ to open shame (Doctrines of Salvation 2:219-220. He had a sure witness of the Lord and willfully chose to follow Satan instead. Is Jesus the Only Redeemer? 9:16), unquenchable fire (Mosiah 2:38), and hell fire (3 Ne. Which would be a sure-fire way to know that a spirit is headed to Outer Darkness? Unless someone has rejected love, like the Nephites, I believe there is still hope that they will repent. The Nephites became so wicked, that contemplating murder was a source of happiness. Generally, the outer darkness is thought to be hell; however, many Christians associate the outer darkness more generally as a place of separation from God or from the metaphorical "wedding banquet" that Jesus is expected to have upon his Second Coming. Okay so clearly we have billions of souls who qualify as perdition and go to outer darkness according to one prophet in his personal books and not officially speaking as a prophet. Tenth President Joseph Fielding Smitha general authority who spoke more about this issue than any other leaderstated. Those consigned to hell or outer darkness are partakers of the second death, and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone. Yet I an certainly exempt from outer darkness, no questions asked. Because of the resurrection, the body and spirit of the wicked are restoredthe body from the grave and the spirit from hell to be judged. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire [i.e., overcome or defeated by Christs Atonement]. As used in the New Testament, hell is an English word which is translated from two Greek words: hades (used ten times) and geenna (twelve times). Chapter 40. I was taught that to be condemned to outer darkness you would have to deny Christ to his very face and that could occur . 5:22), as were those who failed to cast away their sins (JSM 5:34; cf. Clearly you dont know what is and is not doctrine, and are trying to throw shade. These pains are similar to the state of suffering experienced by the ungodly who after mortality are assigned to hell. Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. Yet I never was baptized and confirmed into this church. It is, therefore, important to examine carefully the context of each reference. Consistently, hell is associated with fire. What is the Book of Mormons contribution to our understanding of the New Testaments teachings concerning hell, or that lake of fire John calls the second death (Rev. The first example would be spirits from the preexistence who sided with Lucifer rather than Jesus at the Council in Heavenwhere it was decided who would become the Savior of the World. Continuous suffering, however, is reserved only for sons of perditionthose who are still unclean after the final judgment. Provo, UT 84602 Cannot be saved at the last day; except W.W. Phelps who was classified as such by Joseph and then redeemed, and we should only trust prophets on the matter because they dont conflict, unless they do. Jesus declared that this exalted city would be brought down to hell (Matt. 14:18.) The Bible teaches that there is a devil and a hell, but the place of hell in the plan of salvation is taught best by the Book of Mormon. One example would not be human since they were cast out of heaven with Satan before they could receive a body. Even the wicked of the earth who never knew the power of God, after they have paid the price of their sinningfor they must suffer the excruciating torment which sins will bringshall at last come forth from the prison house. 22:13) that awaits the wicked? Did I really have full knowledge? While some apparently have taught that these spirits could be restored to a kingdom of glory, 12th President Spencer W. Kimball said this wasnt true: In the days of the restoration there apparently were those who taught that the devil and his angels and the sons of perdition should sometime be restored. (Joseph F. Smith,The Second Death,inBrian H. Stuy (editor), Collected Discourses: Delivered by Wilford Woodruff, his two counselors, the twelve apostles, and others, 18681898, 5 vols., (Woodland Hills, Utah: B.H.S. Another name for Outer Darkness is hell. The third use occurs in the parable of the talents: "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 25:30). You are taking quotes that are not Mormon Doctrine. But unofficial prophets speaking at BYU or in their own books say no, except Brigham in the Journal of Discourses which is unofficial. [DS 2:225.] Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_perdition_(Mormonism). The first three are referred to as the three degrees of glory, often compared to the sun, the moon, and the stars (D&C 76:70 . The second death is spiritual and is separation from God. Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. Learn how your comment data is processed. If Lucifer had not known the effects of his rebellion, how would he ever become perdition? D&C 76 does say telestial people are the ones thrust down to hell and not redeemed until the last resurrection. We believe that after the final judgment there are four places to which a person may be sent. Publishing, 19871989), 4:227228. D&C 133:73 says, These shall go away into outer darkness, where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth. Humans who never heard about Mormonism will not go there, as tenth President Joseph Fielding Smith said, That is a punishment that will not come to those who have never known the truth. They believe that they are mortal men capable of mistakes just like the rest of us. It is simply his opinion. In this realm, as the name implies, there will be no light, and consequently no heat. In a general conference talk, Joseph Fielding Smith further explained that. 67, LDS Church Archives. I have no fear of hell fire, that doesnt exist, but the torment and disappointment of the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstoneso is the torment of man. And thats why men alone get, I mean need the priesthood. It clarifies how using an obscure quote does not define LDS doctrines or dogmas. It is provided through Christ's atonement and received by personal faith in Christ as Savior and Lord. So we can clearly state no women are Sons of Perdition in outer darkness. Smith told a general conference audience: I think I am safe in saying that no man can become a Son of Perdition until he has known the light. In the Latter Day Saint movement, "outer darkness" can refer to hell (the place where the spirits of the wicked reside after death but before the resurrection)[3] or to the place where the sons of perdition will reside. 15:2830). 1. Nephis words can thus be applied to Jesus parable: the reason the rich man could not cross the great gulf to Abrahams bosom, or the reason the wicked could not join the Saints of God at the tree of life, is because the justice of God does not permit it. In each of the New Testament references to outer darkness, Christ declared the punishment that awaits faithless and wicked people. In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), a son of perdition is a person who will not take part in the glory of God in the afterlife. Possibly but there is no citation there either. And if they be evil they are consigned to an awful view of their own guilt and abominations, which doth cause them to shrink from the presence of the Lord into a state of misery and endless torment, from whence they can no more return; therefore they have drunk damnation to their own souls. You dont believe it is true, which is the reason why you left. In this context, outer darkness is the spirit prison, or that part of the spirit world that the wicked inhabit prior to their resurrection. J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Church Leaders and the Scriptures, [original title When Are the Writings or Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Scripture?] Immortality and Eternal Life: Reflections from the Writings and Messages of President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Vol, 2, (1969-70): 221; address to Seminary and Institute Teachers, BYU (7 July 1954); reproduced in Church News (31 July 1954); also reprinted in Dialogue 12/2 (Summer 1979): 6881. Those who have never received the light are not to become Sons of Perdition. Alma 40. You quoted a website (Wikipedia) which is not doctrine and another website (FAIRMormon) which directly says it is not doctrine. 4. Delving into the interesting bits about any religion to stem from Joseph Smith Jr. Joseph F. Smith,The Second Death,inBrian H. Stuy (editor). 22:13) if it is also a place of perpetual fire (Matt. While this is true, please define Mormon Doctrine before saying I did not quote Mormon Doctrine. 3:12), the tares are gathered and burned in the fire (Matt. Making the LDS Church Slightly Better: A Members Wish List, You continue to fight against the true church, Those spirits who rebelled against God in the preexistence are the original sons of perdition. The wicked, or in this particular context, the sons of perdition who are filthy still after judgment and resurrection, are assigned to everlasting punishment (see 2 Ne. In the D&C, the definition of those who go to Outer Darkness is stated as: the end thereof, neither the place thereof, nor their torment, no man knows; Neither was it revealed, neither is, neither will be revealed unto man, except to them who are made partakers thereof;Nevertheless, I, the Lord, show it by vision unto many, but straightway shut it up again; Wherefore, the end, the width, the height, the depth, and the misery thereof, they understand not, neither any man except those who are ordained unto this condemnation (D&C 76:45-48). The sinner must deal with the self-created gulf on his own, with the help of the Savior and his Atonement. Making the LDS Church Slightly Better: A Members Wish List. We found these portrayals to be highly inaccurate. 20:6). 22:13). If their Prophet wrote in a journal, or said to someone in passing, or gave a talk a local school saying that, Eating toast without butter is a sin worthy of hell! that does not make it a Mormon Doctrine. Christians have debated for centuries the nature of the hell fire of which Jesus spoke (Matt. The conclusion: You (former Mormon), despite being baptized into this church, are not a son of perdition! Mormonism. 21:8; cf. So, if you are directly listing to Satan, like Cain, and actively turning away from God, like Cain, then you can become a Son of Perdition. This is serving Satan. And I said unto them that our father also saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous; and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire, which ascendeth up unto God forever and ever, and hath no end (1 Ne. Making the LDS Church Slightly Better: A Members Wish List. John identified specific sins that would lead to the lake of fire and brimstone: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death (Rev. [3]. The apostle John saw the final judgment and wrote of the destiny of the wicked: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. ). Clearly fire is used as a metaphor for sufferingnot a literal fire but a state of misery. And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment (Mosiah 2:3839). Who will partake of it, and what is the nature of the eternal torment? Unfortunately, Apple's iOS doesn't support home screen shortcuts in the Chrome browser. What is it? 40 talks in 40 days for General Conference, Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Additional doctrinal truth concerning the great gulf can be found in the Doctrine and Covenants (see D&C 138:1837). - Wilford Woodruff in a meeting with the apostles, 1893 D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power (Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 1997) p. 795. . In Mormonism, Outer darkness is described as "those who are unfaithful, those who will listen to Satan, who will lend a willing ear to his blandishments and to his allurements, when they go from this state of existence, they go into a condition where they are subject to his power. And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness. (1) We believe in trimming our wicks to 1/4 between each burn. But what is light? 5:22), and the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone of which the apostle John wrote (Rev. Smith said this will be practically indescribable: The extent of this punishment none will ever know except those who partake of it. If he were ignorant, he could not have become perdition. But wait! The apostle James taught that the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity . The first death is physical death, and everyone but the devil and his angels will overcome physical death through Resurrection. Over the 30 years in Christian ministry, I have met many former Mormons who once believed in Mormonism, but none has ever confessed that they still believe Mormonism to be true. In the parable of the talents, the returning lord instructed that the wicked and slothful servant who hid his talent in the earth be cast into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt. This is full on rejection of God. [4] Augustine, The City of God, trans. Jesus also referred to outer darkness in two parables he gave during the last week of his life. For those who once were baptized and confirmed into Mormonism, what is your status? 20:13). Mormons believe that there Prophets are fallible and in no way perfect. We probably do not want to know how horrible it is just like in this life, some things that are so horrible that happen (especially to children) wed rather not know about it, if possible. Even the regular Wikipedia seems confused: Sons of Perdition are: The pre-mortal spirit followers of Satan. The Book of Mormon does not teach the doctrinal truth that hell will end for the majority of those who suffer in the spirit prison prior to being resurrected and entering the telestial kingdom; however, this truth is clearly taught in the Doctrine and Covenants (see D&C 76:3638, 106). 6:28), hell fire (3 Ne. 22:13-14, D-R.). 2:11). Satan and his followers are beings of spirit who were denied bodies and cast out of heaven during pre-mortal existence (see Plan of Salvation ). To qualify, a person would not only have to leave the Mormon church but also vehemently speak against it. The city of Capernaum was upbraided for its lack of faith in view of the miracles Jesus performed there. In Outer Darkness, there is endless lamentation and no divine presence. The phrases depths of hell, awful hell, sleep of hell, pains of hell, chains of hell, everlasting hell, and endless hell are all unique to the Book of Mormon. Sons of perdition include (1) those who followed Satan and were cast out of heaven for rebellion during premortality and (2) those who were permitted to be born to this world with physical bodies but then served Satan and turned utterly against God.